App + Analysis

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App + Analysis

Post  Secret on Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:51 pm

Handle: SecretADC
League + Points: Masters T 3101
Alt Handle: Sigma
League + Points: Masters T/Z 3008

Analysis: Mass Queen in Z v X

I saw Destiny try this on one of his streams but I felt that I could improve on it on certain aspects. I chose this for my analysis because it seemed the most interesting build and it's a build that could potentially last from start to finish in a Z vs any matchup provided the user has enough APM/multi tasking skills.

There's no strict BO. To start, scouting is important because there's always the slight chance that you'll get cheesed via 6 pool, proxy gate, proxy racks any of that sort. Pool first is key because you need to get the Queen out as soon as possible and if you go Hatch first it'll be delayed by a short bit which might be significant when stopping a rush.

14 Pool, 15 Hatch seems the most ideal. Keep producing Queen + Drone and any extra larva energy should be used toward Creep tumors to extend your vision. The Lair will be delayed compared to an usual Z v X build simply because you need to make more Queens.

--- Mid Game ---

Once you hit the Mid game provided you spread creep correctly you should have 1/3rd of the map covered in Creep. I think it's important to add a Nydus Network for easy transportation of Queens. Also you need to get down 2 Evos and start upping Missile Attack + Carapace. I noticed that on one of Destiny's VODs, he went for Melee Attack which is puzzling since Missile Attacks affect both the Queen type attacks. You also need to incorporate Overseers + Frequent Changeling scouts to figure out what the opp is up to. I find that around the 10-15 minute mark I can get up to 15-20 Queens, but I suppose with a more optimized build you can get more.

--- Late Game ---

I find that the hardest to play against with Mass Queens are the players who try to counter this with other Spell casters. More specifically vs Protoss. Because you're banking Queen energy for mass/rapid transfusions, one feedback will severely wound a Queen. So the one thing I think would be really helpful is to lay down like 50 Creep Tumors with all your Queen before engaging the enemy. With Overseers, Ghosts will be detected and it'll be easier to spread the Queens somewhat.

I do find engaging Ghosts to be the toughest because several money EMPs will pretty much prevent any transfusion and this is where I think Overlord Drops with 4 Queens each to help snipe each Ghost will help. I have yet to see any matches where someone masses only Ghosts just to counter this build. Most likely they'll play more standard and try to win it that way.

Since you have a lot of Overseers, you can also spam off Changelings to try and block someone's entrance. For example, if a T or a P blocks off his initial ramp you can spam off 10-20 Changelings and try to block him from trying to get to his base. This is useful when you do Mass Overlord + Mass Queen or Nydus + Mass Queen into his base and pick off critical buildings such as Production or Tech Buildings.

I feel that with the Mass Creep spread, it is crucial to deny the opponent his Third and with efficient usage of Nydus or Overlord Drops I feel that this could potentially work.

--- Battle Micro ---

Again, some additional thing is vs a Tank style MM Ball, I think attacking with Mass Queens while transfusing while adding Overlord Queen Drops is the best choice. Again if a T gets to multi bases, Critical Mass Tanks tend to roll over charging Queens, so with the Micro pick out where the best place is to fight. It's sort of like Muta Control, try not to engage the bulk of his Army and try to go elsewhere while putting constant pressure on him.

Two Recent Replays: (I just picked the last two ladder games I did)
(TvP) (TvT)

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Replays

Post  Secret on Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:56 pm

Just noticed the replays didn't show up on the post.

Two Recent Replays: (I just picked the last two ladder games I did)
(TvP) (TvT)

email: shin.241@osu.edu

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Re: App + Analysis

Post  qxc on Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:00 pm

something about attachments is fucked I think. Just upload them elsewhere and link?

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Links

Post  Secret on Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:16 pm

I did what the guy above me did and cut the links partially.

sc2replayed.com/replays/146898-1v1-terran-protoss-gutterhulk (TvP)
sc2replayed.com/replays/145917-1v1-terran-metalopolis (TvT)

http://www. ^

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Re: App + Analysis

Post  qxc on Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:27 pm

Why is your 'end game' mass queens? It seems like this strategy is particularly strong with

1) Units that need creep spread to be effective

2) Units with a lot of hp that are easier to transfuse.

Obviously it's going to be harder to transfuse a zergling than say a roach than an ultralisk or broodlord.

I'm also extremely hesitant to believe that this style can actually stand up to just a well upgraded marine/medivac army without some kind of support.

Is it supposed to be mass queen + something else or actually just mass queen? The +melee makes more sense when you realize that one of the natural transitions is ultralisks and the other is broodlords both of which use the +attack to good effect.

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Post  Secret on Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:57 pm

It would definitely work well paired with Mass Queen + Ultralisk or Mass Queen + Brood Lord.

I think there's a thread on TL about it actually.

However, I just chose Mass Queens only with nothing else more for the "lulz factor" rather than an attempt to reset the standard Z v X strat or any of that sort. Yesterday on a custom vs a friend, I tried to see how Mass Queens would fare vs a heavy turtling Terran position of Tanks/Marines/Marauders.

Despite small spikes up to 250 APM with rapid transfusion, I only came out with 15/32 Queens alive, so it's definitely not a good choice to engage an Army head on.

As long as you can limit the Op to 2 Bases (Non Gold) along with constant harassing it'll be hard for him to max out or at the very least contest you while you take the entire map with extra Hatches. I think a build like this would be good to use in a Game 2 or 3 in a BO5 with a lead.

For it to fit a more standard playstyle I think a large number of Queens in Late Game would benefit Ultras and Brood Lords equally but at the same time I have used them to heal Mutalisks in the past while researching Zerg Air Carapace. This is just to keep a Muta Ball alive longer to harass your op and keep him relatively contained to his cluster of buildings/extended base.

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Re: App + Analysis

Post  Leargle on Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:23 pm

Yeah, this strat seems reminiscent of funday monday. I'm not too sure about laying a bunch of creep tumors to avoid feedbacks-- you need that energy, better off taking the chance of getting feedbacked than waste it imo.

Also, just wanted to let you know that based on your application we're considering you for the initiative. Feel free to post in other players threads a bit, we would like to see how you contribute to other conversations. Do that and we'll be sure to talk about you in our next meeting.

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Re: App + Analysis

Post  balo on Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:36 am

I'm not sure if i understand your strategy good, correct me if im wrong but what you trying to achieve is constant queen production as a defensive unit and spending rest minerals on drones. If yes im curious about few things, how does mass queen deal with any kind of bio pushes? I find queens very uneffective against stimmed marine/marauder force. Also im interested if u tested mass queen strategy versus 6 warpgate push, from my experience i know that if i dont get roach burrow/speed upgrade in time its very hard to hold it and with your build u have to significantly delay lair tech because of queen production and lack of resources since u spend additional mienrals on queens.

Beside this points i very like your idea i think queens in addition to midgame/late game army are very heplfull. Healing mutalisks and later on ultras/broodlords can change alot.

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